Russians Flee Into Exile Because Of Putin's War With Ukraine: NYT
More than 750 people were arrested.during protests across russia yesterday
That's according to a human rights group.
It's been tracking arrests since the
start of the invasion almost three weeks
ago it says nearly 15 000 protesters
have been arrested since february 24th
the demonstrations come despite the
threat of lengthy prison sentences
earlier this month the kremlin passed a
Laws against protesting and independence
reporting on the war with a punishment
of up to 15 years in prison meanwhile
Tens of thousands of Russians are
fleeing to neighboring countries in
response to putin's invasion of ukraine
the new york times spoke to several
Russians who have left their homes over
the past 18 days many have ended up in
Istanbul turkey relying on telegram
Chats and support groups to find housing
the time says these are middle-class
Russians who are against the war and
Fear of recent authoritarian measures
put in place that they believe their way of
life in russia
is no longer possible you know david
We're looking at the horrors that are
unfolding daily for Ukrainians uh it is
also russians who are are going in in
the long term
i suspect if ukraine survives this there
would be a remarkable
marshall plan and it will become a
vibrant country that's an example to the
rest of the world
not so for the Russian entrepreneurs
are fleeing educators are fleeing
journalists fleeing some of the best and
the brightest leaving that country what
does russia look like after this is over
There's a real danger that this
experience tends to hollow out
a lot of the most vibrant parts of
russian urban society if you were to go
today
to the Armenian capital of Yerevan or
the georgian capital of tbilisi or
Istanbul or any number of other places
you'd see
filled with thousands of Russians
computer programmers journalists
business people who are terrified that
if they don't get out now they're going
Being stuck in russia
that they are not in russia that they
I don't recognize remembering what we've had
for the last few decades
is a simulacra of a semi-free
uh
moscow or st petersburg the
understanding was we know we live in an
authoritarian society, there's no
mistaking that
we know our press is is repressed we
know that there are all kinds of
restrictions and this guy is terrible
On the other hand, there's a certain
Intellectual life, there's a business
life there's a kind of
a kind of liberty that they that was
tolerable, everybody knew the arrangement
uh it was not london it was not uh paris
or anything like that but
now there's the chance of it something
Infinitely more repressive
uh where big brother is looking at you
all the more carefully there's film
coming out of moscow
of people holding up a blank piece of
paper and getting arrested
people imitating it
you see this over and over again.
you know it's not just navalny that's in
jail
the
society is being put under
the boot of the authoritarian uh the
despot if you will i did an interview
with steve cotkin who is a historian
of the soviet union and the great
Biographer
of stalin
and he's not at all saying that this is
what russia is and always was and
will be
but he's saying that certain
circumstances
are
beginning with putin but also Russia's
Geography
and its historical reflexes uh are
putting russia in its worst place that
we've seen in decades and so people want
to get out of this country
uh if they can but by the way few can
very few can have them
i wonder if this also
something like this exists in the
russian military and what is the morale of
The Russian military is uh going into
Ukraine Young
boys being yelled at by you know olderwomen in ukraine but also killing
Ukrainians
and killing russians
who live in ukraine
we have all kinds of reports mika
from the front lines of soldiers who had
no idea why they were being sent to the
borders and once they find themselves in
ukraine
uh and sometimes surrendered to to
Ukrainian soldiers uh
protesting their innocence
and saying they were sorry that they
were there
and we live in a world of cell phones
and people are able to call home and
anxious parents mothers and fathers are
able to call their
their sons on the front lines and sooner
or later this too bleeds into russian
society
more and more mothers and fathers
finding about children
children
Inside Ukraine
and committing uh
this act of war
and arguably this act of genocide
against people bringing the
ukrainian people to its knees
are they proud of this
that too will bleed into Russian society.
despite all the restrictions that too
will change the picture but it takes
time
david i i read that the interview you did
with steve kotkin it was super
interesting and i thought one of the the
The points that he made about there's an
Inherent weakness in the russian
historian and what putin has been
telling Russians and previous leaders as
well is that russia is
the great power is not a great power but
great power and in a
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